Ceto-Magoist Conversations

On Dragon River (Milky Way)

[Editor’s Note: I have documented this multi-party email conversation as a way to share the profound implication of Ceto-Magoism (the Whale-guided Way of the Creatrix), which is demonized as the sea-monster/dragon/serpent in the major texts and myths of the patriarchal religions including Christianity and Islam.]

Email discussions about Dragon River (the Milky Way, Our Galaxy)

(In the order of time sequences from the oldest, Dec 15, 2024)


Helen Hwang:

Hello dear Ones,

Just a small delightful insight that I had yesterday. I just learned
that the Korean word for the Milky Way (our galaxy) is Miri-nae (미리내
Dragon’s River)! This is something to support my assessment of
Ceto-Magoism (the Whale-guided Way of the Creatrix). A dragon is the
symbol of the planetary administration of Divine Whales. The name,
Mirinae (Dragon’s River), indicates the Milky Way to be the galaxy
represented by our whale-nourished planet Earth.

Kirsten Brunsgaard:

Thanks! 

Perfect!

In Joh.Rev. 13:11 about the the DRAGON and the monster/beast that comes up from the sea looking like a leopard with bear feet and lion teeath 

– thinking this may be a distant memory of the Mago dragon/whale.

The DRAGON and the MILKY WAY 

in John Rev. that the huge tail of this glowing red DRAGON, the Snake from Ancient times – called Devil and Satan – swept over the sky and flung a third of the stars to the earth … 

3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads. 

4 Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth.

Also George Dumezil in his books is on about the night sky constellations were turned into GODS and Goddesses by the patriarchal Indo-Europeans.

Exciting to continue this discussion. 

Love to all from Kirsten


Helen Hwang:

Dear Kirsten, 

Your resonances inspire me to search more. And I have sought the dragon theme in the Christian Bible and gained tremendously important insights. 

I am having a belly laugh! Revelation Ch 20 (the same link that you used)! Gog and Magog!!! 

The Judgment of Satan

7 When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. 9 They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them. 10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Helen Hwang:

In Water Love,
Helen

In response to Kirsten’s below remarks, I am introducing another Korean word “Saengbul 생불” which means “a born star” or “a birthed star” referring to “a new born child.” Saeng means (to birth or to be born) Bul means a star or stars. It is thought that a birth of a child indicates a birth of star in Our Galaxy (Dragon’s River)! Where are those insights are from? I am FINALLY connected with a small group of Korean experts (artist, professor, and writer) who are open to my research on Ceto-Magoism. You can see that I am gaining invaluable insights from them, while sharing my research on Ceto-Magoism. The more I hear from them, I am convinced of the idea of “As above, so below, and so within.” 

“Also George Dumezil in his books is on about the night sky constellations were turned into GODS and Goddesses by the patriarchal Indo-Europeans.”

In Water Love, Helen

Helen Hwang:

Dragon (beast, leviathan, or serpent) is demonized not only in the Christian Bible but also in the Quran, two patriarchal religions with the male God at the top:

In Islam is often known by the name of Dragon Falak. Falak is a dragon that lives under Fire Realm. This dragon is said to be so great that it is only because of the fear of God’s power alone that it can prevent it from engulfing all of His creations.

This creature is rumored to be inhabiting the underworld and will be out later when this world will end. Falak himself is told to have a big appetite. He can eat almost anything. The Falak dragon is also a living creature of hell whose job is to torture humans. This one dragon is also often equated with Suja’ul Aqra.

https://steemit.com/neoxianfan/@hendrawahyuni/the-falak-dragon-narrated-by-the-qur-an-d6fc318f0211d

Here is the 99 dragons mentioned in the Islamic text:

If being hit with hammers weren’t bad enough Muhammad also taught that literal dragons would torture unbelievers!

Narrated AbuSa’id
Allah’s Messenger (peace be upon him) said: There dominate NINETY-NINE DRAGONS over the unbeliever in the grave. They (constantly) bite him and sting him till there comes the hour (of resurrection). (These dragons are so poisonous) that if one of them exhales on the Earth, no verdure will ever grow upon it.
Reported by Darimi, Tirmidhi transmitted something similar but he said seventy instead of ninety-nine. (Tirmidhi Hadith, Number 46– ALIM CD-ROM Version)

It is one thing to depict spiritual realities in a materialistic or physical manner or to use the metaphor of mythical creatures to describe spiritual entities like Satan:

“In that day the LORD with his hard and great and strong sword will punish Leviathan the fleeing serpent, Leviathan the twisting serpent, and he will slay the dragon that is in the sea.” Isaiah 27:1

“And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the Devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world — he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.” Revelation 12:9

“Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding in his hand the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain. And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years were ended. After that he must be loosed for a little while.” Revelation 20:1-3

Or even of wicked rulers like Pharaoh:

“speak, and say, Thus says the Lord GOD: ‘Behold, I am against you, Pharaoh king of Egypt, the great dragon that lies in the midst of his streams, that says, “My Nile is my own; I made it.”’” Ezekiel 29:3

https://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/jinn_dragons.htm

Helen Hwang:

Hello dear Ones,

In relation to our discussions of the demonized dragon/beast/serpent in Christian and Islamic texts, which are still effective in the mind of their believers, I want to bring attention to the cross-cultural manifestation of the “sea monster.” Below is the Wikipedia page that I wanted to share before. What is evident is that this sea monster (the whale) is depicted as the giant opponent or archenemy of the patriarchal hero. This supports my work on Ceto-Magoism (the Whale-guided Way of the Creatrix) to be pre-patriarchal in origin and spread across cultures in pre- and proto-historical times. 

Below are some example names of the sea monster.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_monster

Example

First fontana dei mostri marini, Florence, Italy Second fontana dei mostri marini, Florence, Italy

Mary Saracino:

That makes sense to me, Helen. It also supports that the Catholic/Christian story about Saint George slaying the dragon. is really a story about suppressing the Divine Female.

On Dragon Hairpin (Binyeo)

Helen Hwang:

Dear Mary and Everyone,

Yes, this brings us back to what we have been discussing in the FB Mago Circle since some years ago, which was made into RTM posts. It has a numerological dimension to the dragon-slayer theme. I don’t know if you or others here were following the sequels of the nine-headed dragon/snake slain by patriarchal heroes topic. Below is the last 9th sequel (you can read it from the sequel 1). We in fact can continue with our recent discussions on Dragon’s River and its dragon denominations in major religious texts and beyond.

https://www.magoism.net/2020/06/special-post-9-nine-headed-snake-slain-by-patriarchal-heroes-a-cross-cultural-discussion-by-mago-circle-members/

Solstice Day 5 Blessings,
Helen


Helen Hwang:

P.S. Whales are the exemplar of the Mother Divine (Magoist cetological discussions are necessary). My hypothesis is that cetological discoveries made by Goma (the pre-patriarchal queen mother divine) enabled her to establish the teaching of Magoism, the Way of the Creatrix. The “singing” of whales (circulation of H2O/water on the Earth and beyond, the Milky Way) nurtures all lifeforms in the Milky Way (Dragon’s River), the consciousness of ancient Magoists, which must have been shared by others across cultures in pre-patriarchal times and later demonized in patriarchal times (see dragon-slaying myths and the prophecy of Gog and Magog in Revelations of the New Testament). That singing is in tune with the ninefold Cosmic Music through which the Mother World has been formed. The Magoist Cosmogony ascribes the ninefold Cosmic Music to the ultimate creative force of the Matriverse. Thus we are told this: Mago, the Creatrix is the Ninth Mother, has given birth to Eight Daughters, a mytheme reflecting the nine-fold Cosmic Music. Cross-cultural manifestations of the ninefold women-animals-environments (Nine Mothers, Nine Sisters, Nine Heavens, Navratri and Novena, etc) are close or remote evidence of Ceto-Magoism, I would say.


Noris Binet:

Unfortunately still is operating in the psyche of so meany people and cultures. Suppressing the Feminine force that is the only possibility of rebalancing society. Without the feminine force our societies are…we continue limping… 

Still in Mexico despide the Catholic Church we have snake everywhere in murals in many places…

Noris 

Helen Hwang:

Hello dear Noris,

What you said is really important and I appreciate your chimining in. 

I name all dragon-related Old and New Testaments texts (as well as the Quran) and their interpretation, demonizing the dragon (held by the Gog and Magog) as the Antichrist is a dreadful scenario, “the patriarchal narrative,” basically made of lies driven by fear and greed for power, that is still live in those who practice those religions. In fact, reading those texts makes me have a chill in my spine, feeling so bad about those who are under or influenced by the patriarchal narrative. Imagine that that is the only narrative given to humanity?! I can’t stand the thought. 

Such makes me realize what patriarchy is and how it is maintained: by threatening the innocent people through indoctrinations inspiring fear and obedience (the non-believers of the God will be thrown into an eternal hell at the time of the final judgement, etc). The patriarchal narrative creates and reproduces the ugliest conditions of humanity (all about killing, betraying, and lying). Today, we can experience such unbearably painful happenings in dramas and movies if not our own individual lives. Now how do we get out of the patriarchal narrative? I learned that we need to put forth the matriarchal and matricentric narrative, the Vision of the Mother World. We in different cultures have different matriarchal legacies. But please wait and stay with me until I lay out the full scale of Ceto-Magoism for us and the world, that is my self-defined mission of my life, it has become clearer. Of course, Ceto-Magoism is the matriversal narrative, which will not only debunk but also defeat the patriarchal narrative. In the earlier years of my research on Ceto-Magoism (the Whale-guided Way of the Creatrix), I sensed that pre-patriarchal (matriarchal/matricentric/matriversal) history was not just about the agency of women (it is not about elevating women above men per se) but about the matricentric bond between humans and the natural world headed by whales. The Mother World is strong, representing the United Whole of ALL in the Matriverse. It is real, please don’t forget the linguistic evidence that I recently shared. And my recent articles and presentations on Ceto-Magoism. And I am sure you will resonate with them in your own cultural contexts. The Mother World held by both women and men will defeat/transcend patriarchy. We won’t buy into the patriarchal narrative. We need to uphold the Matriversal Narrative for us and the world! The Mother World is not anthropocentric, not exclusive to humans. Ancient Magoists learned it from whales/cetaceans. BTW, the whale singing (emitting frequencies) is cosmogonic, leading to the consciousness of the Ninefold Cosmic Music. The sound brings forth forms to be and become (creates), that is the core idea of the Magoist Cosmogony. And the sound is by all means rhythmic (numerological) and tonal (sonic). (I would like to hold a salon in January about Ceto-Magoism to explore its pivotal underpinnings). That is confirmed by our recent discussions here. I have a ton of materials and themes to share that Ceto-Magoism, the Matriversal Narrative, was and is real then and now. When something is aligned with the cosmogonic principle, we call it truth. And truth guides us. Ancient Magoists did not need dogmas or creeds. Neither do we. Truth ever unfolding is the guide (very personal yet political and cosmic). And the path to truth knows no limits or boundaries, it is magical! When people are conscious that the matriversal truth is unfolding and guiding us, each of us becomes self-guided and becomes a citizen of the Mother World. Because we reap the fruits of beauty, peace, love, connection, and comfort unfolded in truth. We don’t need dogmas or indoctrinations. Does that make sense to you? 

In Water Love,
Helen

Kaarina Kailo:

The FInnish equivalent, Iku-turso is among other things linked with the demonized witch of the North, the former great mother, and both are linked to beings that brought scourges, diseases and all sort of evil to the world. A patriarchal woman-animal-monster. Kaarina

Beth Raps:
Wow!

A powerful yes to this:

When something is aligned with the cosmogonic principle, we call it truth. And truth guides us.

Ancient Magoists did not need dogmas or creeds. 

Neither do we. 

I would love to attend a salon in January about Ceto-Magoism. What about a short series of salons, Helen, if that is not too much to ask?

Helen Hwang:

Hello Kaarina,

Thanks so much, I dug a bit about Iku-turso, which adds to the list of pre-patriarchal Ceto-Magoist divines (sea monsters). The fact that they are mentioned as the giant is another indication of the whale divine, not only the physical size but also the planetary and matriversal scale. 

Iku-Turso (Finnish pronunciation: [ˈikuˌturso], “the eternal Turso”; also known as Iku-Tursas, Iki-Tursas, Meritursas, Tursas, Turisas among others) is a malevolent sea monster in Finnish mythology, best known for appearing in the Kalevala. 

The name Turisas is probably an early loanword from the Proto-Germanic *Þurisaz (“giant”).[1]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iku-Turso_(creature)

Hope we just scratched the surface of Ceto-Magoist evidence across cultures. If we keep searching for it, I believe the list will grow to what, we don’t know yet.

In Water Love,
Helen

Helen Hwang:

Dear Beth and All,

Thank you so much for chimining in and your interest in Jan Salon. January Salon will be an open introduction to Ceto-Magoism (the Whale-guided Way of the Creatrix). I will be happy to continue the topic in different formats. As you might know, I used to hold virtual Mago Whale Pilgrimages (each pilgrimage had three tours) for the last two years (2021-2022) so I have a ton of materials to share with you and others who are interested. I know some others expressed interest too. For the forum, how about Jan 11 (Sat) 1PM PT for 90 min? 

Helen

Beth Raps:

That sounds very good to me, of course I am flexible, knowing this is a global group.

Lovingly,

Beth

Helen Hwang:

Hi Beth and Everyone,

Thank you so much for your proposal of a salon or salons, which is aligned with my own planning. I just needed a catalyst to put it into action. This morning I am led to call this salon and its follow-ups, “Rebuild the Vision of the Mother World through Ceto-Magoism (the Whale-guided Way of the Creatrix).” I mean that is what it will be all about. I am writing a longer email to us and will send it to you all shortly.

In Water Love,
Helen   

Helen Hwang:

Hello Mary and Everyone,

Hope you are well with the insight that we are exposing here. For those who are under the continuous influence of monotheistic religions (Christianity and Islam per se), I see it urgent that you protect yourself by not fully engaging in those texts (lies and threats). I had an important conversation with Kaalii Cargill two days ago on the topic we have. Kaalii said she did not have much influence from Christianity while growing up, which makes me feel relieved. I have found Kaalii’s advocacy of soul-centered psychotherapy fascinating, although Kaalii has not been active on it in recent years, and I hope you Kaalii to be more vocal among the circles of The Mago Work. I need you, I must say. The patriarchal narrative spreads fear and helplessness, while depleting our life energy so that it can conquer the mind/body/soul of people. Then, we know what that means. Hope you, Kaalii, or others here, share how you could overcome the patriarchal narrative. How do each of you find the current insight (pre-patriarchally originated Ceto-Magoism being demonized by patriarchal religions and cultures of the world), if you follow our talks?

What I suggest is that we are consciously distancing ourselves from it. One traditional way of ancient Magoists that I could share is this anecdote: When one happened to hear of “the temptation,” he washed his ears in the river (meaning that you clean up what you hear). It helps me to understand how important it is to distance myself from the patriarchal narrative. The issue is that moderns, especially in those cultural spheres of patriarchal religions, have lost the ability to tell the patriarchal narrative. The patriarchal narrative has permeated almost every section of our modern lives. We know this. What I am saying is that we awake ourselves to the recognition. That’s the first step and perhaps the last step, we stay awake to the destructiveness of the patriarchal narrative. At the same time, we are reviving the Vision of the Mother World, which has brought us together in the first place across cultures and differences. 

This is my experience of living through the so-called “holidays” of this year. I allowed myself to be hooked into a U.S. TV drama series. I completed watching Breaking Bad, almost all 50 episodes yesterday. The drama was so intriguing in exposing the effects of the patriarchal narrative (how and why one falls into drug production and deals with the widespread drug cartels/networks to the end). This drama takes viewers to intelligent dialogues about human psychologies in the current world in making physical survival and choices. It is rated high, which tells me that people in general are thirsty for intelligence (and beyond). Of course, it does not hint at the Vision of the Mother World, that is just the way it is in the film and drama industries. The drama depicts very sad and tragic realities (I mean patriarchal conditions), and the impact is real. The impasse (doomed path) is the message that it clearly conveys. It is probably taken as another big success of a U.S. TV drama for many. Of course, it does not hint a strain of hope to the vision of Life, which is true in a patriarchal reality. Pessimism is so pervasive. I clearly see the real face of patriarchy. I am sure many viewers saw that too without naming it patriarchy. That is what the patriarchal world can produce and perpetuate the best it can (making one realize the doomed nature of patriarchal lives). And that can be one of the best entertainment businesses. I realize that if only women and men can see the patriarchal world as a drug cartel! Then, we would leave it behind!!! Many don’t see the core of patriarchy (lies, cheats, directionless, confusion, shallowness, and ruthlessness) in our mundane lives. Oh confirmed is my realization that people are not per se evil but they are only molded into evil. Patriarchy creates evil doers because it unfolds the potentiality of hell, it projects onto the Mother World! 

Viewing a drama series is not like the choice of walking into the church of Christianity to expose myself but it is something similar, I realize. I chose to watch it but I must say that I was so drawn to it. In any case, this drama showed me the core of the patriarchal narrative, which helps me act BIG to rebuild the Vision of the Mother World. I wash my eyes and ears in the Dragon’s River!

Please feel free to respond to what I shared above. Thank you for reading it.

In appreciation,
Helen

(Jan 9, 2025)

Annie Finch:

Helen et al,

This Dragon Path book may be of interest.

It includes Mag-Ma of the Deeps!

https://aniwilliams.com/guardians-of-the-dragon-path-book

Annie

[Our conversation continued.] As a whole, this conversation is nicely linked to our previous discussions on the nine-headed dragon/serpent slain by patriarchal heroes, which are available in Return to Mago E-Magazine (magoism.net).

Below is the last sequence and you can read it from the sequence 1 in Return to Mago E-Magazine.

https://www.magoism.net/2020/06/special-post-9-nine-headed-snake-slain-by-patriarchal-heroes-a-cross-cultural-discussion-by-mago-circle-members/

———

Helen Hwang
Feb 6, 2025, 12:08 AM

Hello dear Ones,

I have been translating the Budoji’s all 33 chapters for the purpose of utilizing it for the graduate program in Creatrix Studies whose curriculum is currently in preparation. Yes, I am currently preparing for the opening of an MA/Ph.D. program in Creatrix Studies! I am almost ready to release the first four chapters of the Budoji (the Magoist Cosmogony) with Ceto-Magoist summaries. Why is the Budoji for the Creatrix Studies curriculum? That is because I am convinced that the Budoji is the original text, which has been subjected to magna-matricide by patriarchal religious texts including the Old Testament of the Bible. It is the matriversal text that survived to reverse the lies of patriarchy!!! Truth does not die. Lies can’t cover the truth. The Budoji is far more complex, beautiful, and sophisticated than the Christian Genesis narrative. Foremost, it contains the matriversal account that we moderns unheard of. For example, the first two chapters of the Genesis is only a reduced and distorted version of the Budoji’s first four chapters! Of course, the maternal principle of the Budoji is utterly differently remade in the Bible. The father God or the Lord Creator can’t stand alone by putting male attire on Mago, the Creatrix. Its patriarchal “creativity” comes as carefully crafted but in a childish mind after all. Given that Ceto-Magoism (named as the Magog or the Gog) has been demonized as the sea-monster/whale/dragon/serpent in the Christian and Islamic texts, it is only logical to deem that the Budoji has been under the patriarchal attempt of subversion.

That said, I am going to share some intriguing insight. In Chapter 4 of the Budoji, there is a part that mentions “the black gold (o-geum) in ears” (meaning black gold earrings) worn by human ancestors in the paradisiacal home of the Earth to enhance hearing of the Heavenly Music, the creative force of the Matriverse. The term “black gold” was puzzling to me for many years, nearly 24 years. Only now I am able to see that it refers to “the gold of Goma” as she is associated with the color black (the dark valley of the vagina) as well as her other symbols including the bear, the crow, the head, etc. The association of Goma with the color black has surfaced in my mind since I wrote the article on Mago Halmi’s skirt creation motif. I ran into a large number of superbly elaborated gold earrings of ancient Korean archaeological finds dating to 4th to 6th century CE. After all, the custom of wearing earrings was to hear the cosmogenic waves of the Cosmic Music, according to the Budoji. That said, what really caught my eyes was something utterly unexpected: it is called “the black gold hairpin (o-geum-jam).” Amazingly, this black gold hairpin has been worshipped as the divine body through the annual rituals performed by Mudangs in a region (Samcheok) of South Korea. This ritual festival dates back to the Silla period (57 BCE -935 CE). I haven’t said the punch line yet. The black gold hairpin has the design of a dragon head!!! Thus, the hairpin itself is presented as a dragon. Its dragon design indicates that they are Ceto-Magoist relics. I am attaching some images of it here. I figure that the black gold hairpin is a variation of the black gold earrings, both of which are used on the face and the hair part near the ears. They are worn to aid hearing the sound waves. It is possible that gold earrings and the gold hairpin were used together or separately in ancient times. But the gold earrings likely predate the latter. The Budoji says that those with the gold earrings could hear the Heavenly Music, which is essential in knowing nature’s way of cosmogenic transformation (widely awakening to the creative force of the Matriverse). Back to the black color of the gold earrings. In fact, gold does not come in black. I figure that the gold earrings and the gold hairpin were not actually black in color. Unless the Budoji refers to it as another metal that comes in black. However, gold is unlikely to be misnamed in the Budoji (for example, given that the text articulates the accuracy of the 13 month 28 calendar). I figure that the black gold did not mean the color black per se but the gold of Goma. Did human ancestors (supposedly the paleolithic people) utilize gold as such? That is another question to answer. In any case, the dragon hairpin substantiates that the Budoji is a Ceto-Magoist text. 


Hope you enjoy what I shared above with the images. 

In Water Love,
Helen

P.S. I can see that gold earrings and the biyeo (비녀 hairpin) together with gold crowns are the precursors of the whale bell (a gigantic metal bell to replicate the singing of whales in the seas). They are meant to aid one’s sonority. Ancient gold earrings and gold crowns come with delicately engraved or richly attached dangling decorations designed to generate sound waves and shine through in the light, as the wearer walks. Binyeo in the form of a dragon is exclusively worn by women in their hair. The binyeo is the only female-identified item, whereas earrings and crowns were also worn by men, although less splendid or gigantic. This is material to share as a course, I believe.  

When we hear nature’s sound waves, our inner eyes are open to awaken (make us intelligent/spiritual), we realize that we are happy, connected, and hopeful in this life’s journey. Have you experienced that? If you are exposed to the singing of whales, you know what it would be like??? 

Helen

Beth Raps
Feb 7, 2025

The binyeo is given by the shaman to her daughter to use to call on the person she desperately seeks when the daughter (a dream-reader shaman) must flee. 500 years later, the daughter is running Mystic Pop-Up Bar in downtown Seoul and healing souls. She uses the binyeo in the first episode to avenge a woman who is being sexually harassed by her boss, and loses it, then receives it back from someone she is desperately seeking to help her.

I have been avidly watching a binyeo “in action” during the first episode of the Netflix show Mystic Pop-Up Bar!

I tried to capture a photo or a tiny part of the series for you but Netflix is clever, my photos and little video came out black except for the subtitles!